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	<title>Comments on: Don’t Hire a Marketer before Product/Market Fit</title>
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	<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/</link>
	<description>Unlocking Startup Growth</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:46:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: My take on Customer Development and the Lean Startup &#124; Recess Mobile Blog</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-8979</link>
		<dc:creator>My take on Customer Development and the Lean Startup &#124; Recess Mobile Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 13:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-8979</guid>
		<description>[...] ideas, wrapped around a case study, can be found on the Ben Yoskovitz’ blog. The issue, as with pushing sales and marketing, press, or premature scalaculation is when you hit the accelerator before finding product/market [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ideas, wrapped around a case study, can be found on the Ben Yoskovitz’ blog. The issue, as with pushing sales and marketing, press, or premature scalaculation is when you hit the accelerator before finding product/market [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Marketers &#124; Market By Numbers</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-5746</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Marketers &#124; Market By Numbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-5746</guid>
		<description>[...] being said, the recurring theme that CEOs and entrepreneurs should avoid hiring marketers, that marketers only do PR, random positioning, and branding, CEOs should formulate marketing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] being said, the recurring theme that CEOs and entrepreneurs should avoid hiring marketers, that marketers only do PR, random positioning, and branding, CEOs should formulate marketing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Ellis</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-157</guid>
		<description>(This is a reply to Sean Murphy&#039;s comment above)  Your recommendation to read The Four Steps to the Epiphany last year has been an important addition to my customer development approach.  Thanks again.  

I&#039;m not familiar with some of the other books you mentioned, but I&#039;ll check em out.   Hopefully they will provide as much value as The Four Steps to the Epiphany has.  I&#039;m sure there are lots of great pockets of wisdom and experience out there, but overwhelmingly I find that customer development is still a very flawed process at most startups.  But that is changing.  Within a few years, I expect it will be standard practice for startups to contract a customer development expert to work alongside the founders through this challenging stage.  Clearly we won&#039;t be the only ones providing this service.  I&#039;ve encouraged Brant and several others to help us fill this void.  I plan in the future to put together a list of individuals and companies that are offering customer development help.  In the meantime, feel free to post another comment describing the services that you offer, prices, terms, references, etc.   

And a systematic approach to customer development is just part of a broader movement toward lean startups.  I had coffee with Eric Reis yesterday and we discussed this ecosystem that is emerging to support a lean startup go to market approach.  It is definitely an exciting time to be working with startups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(This is a reply to Sean Murphy&#8217;s comment above)  Your recommendation to read The Four Steps to the Epiphany last year has been an important addition to my customer development approach.  Thanks again.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with some of the other books you mentioned, but I&#8217;ll check em out.   Hopefully they will provide as much value as The Four Steps to the Epiphany has.  I&#8217;m sure there are lots of great pockets of wisdom and experience out there, but overwhelmingly I find that customer development is still a very flawed process at most startups.  But that is changing.  Within a few years, I expect it will be standard practice for startups to contract a customer development expert to work alongside the founders through this challenging stage.  Clearly we won&#8217;t be the only ones providing this service.  I&#8217;ve encouraged Brant and several others to help us fill this void.  I plan in the future to put together a list of individuals and companies that are offering customer development help.  In the meantime, feel free to post another comment describing the services that you offer, prices, terms, references, etc.   </p>
<p>And a systematic approach to customer development is just part of a broader movement toward lean startups.  I had coffee with Eric Reis yesterday and we discussed this ecosystem that is emerging to support a lean startup go to market approach.  It is definitely an exciting time to be working with startups.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Murphy</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-144</guid>
		<description>I am glad I was able to introduce you to &quot;Four Steps to the Epiphany.&quot; It seems to have had a profound effect on your approach to early stage marketing. I have enormous respect for Steve Blank but he is not the only one to look at the pre-Chasm or customer development problem. Certainly Mark Leslie&#039;s &quot;Sales Learning Curve&quot; has a grasp of a different part of the same elephant, along with Katsaros&#039; and Christy&#039;s &quot;Getting it Right the First Time,&quot; and the &quot;Sell, Design, Build&quot; model from the SyncDev team at http://www.productdevelopment.com/ and Bijoy Goswami&#039;s &quot;Demo, Sell, Build&quot; at http://www.bootstrapaustin.org/wiki/index.php/Map

Eric Ries at http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/ has extended Steve&#039;s model, having worked with him at IMVU, to include Agile and Lean thinking. Babak Nivi of http://www.venturehacks.com/ has also been actively synthesizing a scientific approach to early stage ventures that integrates customer development with Agile, Lean, and the new product introduction models from folks like Don Reinertsen at http://www.reinertsenassociates.com/ who coined the term &quot;Fuzzy Front End&quot; more than two decades ago to capture the evolving nature of early requirements as they are refined by early customer feedback and results from product architecture planning.

And it&#039;s an area our firm also works in as you were kind enough to note on March 9, 2008 after we had had several conversations about Xobni&#039;s situation: &quot;Sean Murphy&#039;s focus on early stage software firms looking for traction and scale mirrors my own. I have found his suggestions and feedback to be honest, direct, and extremely helpful.&quot;

I admire what you are trying to accomplish but I think you should recognize that there are many more folks working on &quot;Customer Development&quot; than just Steve Blank and yourself. In fact reading the earlier comments I was delighted to learn about Brant Cooper at http://market-by-numbers.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad I was able to introduce you to &#8220;Four Steps to the Epiphany.&#8221; It seems to have had a profound effect on your approach to early stage marketing. I have enormous respect for Steve Blank but he is not the only one to look at the pre-Chasm or customer development problem. Certainly Mark Leslie&#8217;s &#8220;Sales Learning Curve&#8221; has a grasp of a different part of the same elephant, along with Katsaros&#8217; and Christy&#8217;s &#8220;Getting it Right the First Time,&#8221; and the &#8220;Sell, Design, Build&#8221; model from the SyncDev team at <a href="http://www.productdevelopment.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.productdevelopment.com/</a> and Bijoy Goswami&#8217;s &#8220;Demo, Sell, Build&#8221; at <a href="http://www.bootstrapaustin.org/wiki/index.php/Map" rel="nofollow">http://www.bootstrapaustin.org/wiki/index.php/Map</a></p>
<p>Eric Ries at <a href="http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/</a> has extended Steve&#8217;s model, having worked with him at IMVU, to include Agile and Lean thinking. Babak Nivi of <a href="http://www.venturehacks.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.venturehacks.com/</a> has also been actively synthesizing a scientific approach to early stage ventures that integrates customer development with Agile, Lean, and the new product introduction models from folks like Don Reinertsen at <a href="http://www.reinertsenassociates.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.reinertsenassociates.com/</a> who coined the term &#8220;Fuzzy Front End&#8221; more than two decades ago to capture the evolving nature of early requirements as they are refined by early customer feedback and results from product architecture planning.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s an area our firm also works in as you were kind enough to note on March 9, 2008 after we had had several conversations about Xobni&#8217;s situation: &#8220;Sean Murphy&#8217;s focus on early stage software firms looking for traction and scale mirrors my own. I have found his suggestions and feedback to be honest, direct, and extremely helpful.&#8221;</p>
<p>I admire what you are trying to accomplish but I think you should recognize that there are many more folks working on &#8220;Customer Development&#8221; than just Steve Blank and yourself. In fact reading the earlier comments I was delighted to learn about Brant Cooper at <a href="http://market-by-numbers.com/" rel="nofollow">http://market-by-numbers.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Leland Creswell</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Leland Creswell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Sean I agree here with most of what you said.

 Since word of mouth is the most powerful &quot;marketing tool&quot; for any startup, and startups lack the money that it will take to get a proper marketing campaign off the ground, product quality is crucial.

 Does it solve an important problem?
 Does it solve this problem well?
 How many people need this solution?

 Initially when I started thinking about how to market a startup, I was overwhelmed by the possible actions. This article somewhat clears up my tensions. :)

 Additionally, I really liked your usage of the &quot;curse of knowledge&quot; phrase. I first heard this phrase in the book &quot;The Wisdom of the Crowd.&quot; by James Surowiki.

 Finding opinions and ideas outside of the group is crucial. 

 In startups, positive feedback loops are deadly. Look at Webvan for the results of a positive feedback loop in a startup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean I agree here with most of what you said.</p>
<p> Since word of mouth is the most powerful &#8220;marketing tool&#8221; for any startup, and startups lack the money that it will take to get a proper marketing campaign off the ground, product quality is crucial.</p>
<p> Does it solve an important problem?<br />
 Does it solve this problem well?<br />
 How many people need this solution?</p>
<p> Initially when I started thinking about how to market a startup, I was overwhelmed by the possible actions. This article somewhat clears up my tensions. <img src='http://startup-marketing.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> Additionally, I really liked your usage of the &#8220;curse of knowledge&#8221; phrase. I first heard this phrase in the book &#8220;The Wisdom of the Crowd.&#8221; by James Surowiki.</p>
<p> Finding opinions and ideas outside of the group is crucial. </p>
<p> In startups, positive feedback loops are deadly. Look at Webvan for the results of a positive feedback loop in a startup.</p>
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		<title>By: Brant</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/dont-hire-a-marketer-for-your-early-stage-startup/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Brant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=266#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Sean,
Thanks for the post and the recommendation on the book.  I&#039;ve picked up a copy and am finding it very useful.  Adds quite a bit of structure to the processes I&#039;ve been developing, testing and starting to &lt;a href=&quot;http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/09/sales-and-marketing-r-d/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;write&lt;/a&gt; about. 

What astounds me, however, is the assumption that customer development happens post-funding.  In my experience, it&#039;s difficult to get companies who have already over-promised revenue to fully buy into the program.  The pull of opportunism is too strong with the board breathing down your neck.  We need to do a better job convincing entrepreneurs to intelligently &lt;a href=&quot;http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/17/market-segments/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;segment &lt;/a&gt;their market, prior to funding; prior to getting themselves into trouble.

Regarding &quot;don&#039;t hire a marketer,&quot; I&#039;m not sure I agree; they just need to hire the right one!  : ) I get your (and Blank&#039;s) point, but one doesn&#039;t stop hiring all VPs of Engineering because some don&#039;t know Agile programming.  The point is that different companies at various stages of development need marketers with different skill sets.  The pre-Madison Ave marketers need to &lt;a href=&quot;http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/11/who-gets-marketing/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; educate&lt;/a&gt; investors and technologists about early stage marketing.  Like you&#039;re doing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,<br />
Thanks for the post and the recommendation on the book.  I&#8217;ve picked up a copy and am finding it very useful.  Adds quite a bit of structure to the processes I&#8217;ve been developing, testing and starting to <a href="http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/09/sales-and-marketing-r-d/" rel="nofollow">write</a> about. </p>
<p>What astounds me, however, is the assumption that customer development happens post-funding.  In my experience, it&#8217;s difficult to get companies who have already over-promised revenue to fully buy into the program.  The pull of opportunism is too strong with the board breathing down your neck.  We need to do a better job convincing entrepreneurs to intelligently <a href="http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/17/market-segments/" rel="nofollow">segment </a>their market, prior to funding; prior to getting themselves into trouble.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;don&#8217;t hire a marketer,&#8221; I&#8217;m not sure I agree; they just need to hire the right one!  : ) I get your (and Blank&#8217;s) point, but one doesn&#8217;t stop hiring all VPs of Engineering because some don&#8217;t know Agile programming.  The point is that different companies at various stages of development need marketers with different skill sets.  The pre-Madison Ave marketers need to <a href="http://market-by-numbers.com/2009/02/11/who-gets-marketing/" rel="nofollow"> educate</a> investors and technologists about early stage marketing.  Like you&#8217;re doing!</p>
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