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	<title>Comments on: Getting to Product-Market Fit</title>
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	<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/</link>
	<description>Unlocking Startup Growth</description>
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		<title>By: João Guilherme</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-12035</link>
		<dc:creator>João Guilherme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 02:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-12035</guid>
		<description>My first contact with such methodology was the SSL conference, wich I watched live here from Brazil. Ever since, I&#039;ve been looking at entrepreneurship in a different way.

I thought I coukd easily start using the concepts at the startup I&#039;m working with (EurekaClick.com), wich is a social network for companies that want to export or import their products. I am however having a hard time trying to engage my partners in following the techniques I&#039;ve learned. I guess it&#039;s part of the process and this very post will be a great way to start showing them what a lean startup is.

Any suggestions about what the next step should be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first contact with such methodology was the SSL conference, wich I watched live here from Brazil. Ever since, I&#8217;ve been looking at entrepreneurship in a different way.</p>
<p>I thought I coukd easily start using the concepts at the startup I&#8217;m working with (EurekaClick.com), wich is a social network for companies that want to export or import their products. I am however having a hard time trying to engage my partners in following the techniques I&#8217;ve learned. I guess it&#8217;s part of the process and this very post will be a great way to start showing them what a lean startup is.</p>
<p>Any suggestions about what the next step should be?</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Thorell</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11942</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Thorell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11942</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Sean and Patrick for answering my questions. And thanks, Patrick, for the leads on the Freemium articles. Anyone using scientific method inside a marketing context is totally cool by me -- unfortunately many, many people think &quot;marketing science&quot; is an oxymoron. Look forward to reading more from you folks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Sean and Patrick for answering my questions. And thanks, Patrick, for the leads on the Freemium articles. Anyone using scientific method inside a marketing context is totally cool by me &#8212; unfortunately many, many people think &#8220;marketing science&#8221; is an oxymoron. Look forward to reading more from you folks!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vlaskovits</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11937</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vlaskovits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11937</guid>
		<description>@Lisa

Thanks for your comment.  Just to be clear, Sean is the creator of Survey.io, not me. 

With regard to your comment about &quot;it’s really scientific method, isn’t it?&quot; - I couldn&#039;t agree more.  In fact, Brant and I note in the book:

&quot;At an abstract level, Customer Development...applies an engineering,
or scientific method, to what is really not a
scientific endeavor (building a business).
Your process will resemble the scientific
method by following these steps:

• Observing and describing a phenomenon
• Formulating a causal hypothesis to explain
the phenomenon
• Using a hypothesis to predict the results of
new observations
• Measuring prediction performance based on
experimental tests&quot;

--

In the book, we don&#039;t spend a lot of time on freemium, as the book is an outline and primer for getting to Product-Market Fit, which is another way of saying Customer Development is a malleable,
customizable, and bespoke methodology for
dealing with the chaos of the real-world.

Back to freemium, I am not sure that going with a freemium model is as simple as making a decision to make a grab for marketshare - I think it is considerably more complicated than that, and highly dependent on what sort of market type you are addressing (new, existing, re-segmented etc).  

For further insight on freemium, I would suggest reading any of Sean&#039;s posts on the matter as well as Ash Maurya&#039;s and Lincoln Murphy&#039;s.

http://www.lincolnmurphy.com/2010/01/new-paper-reality-of-freemium-in-saas.html

http://www.ashmaurya.com/2010/07/3-rules-to-actionable-metrics/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lisa</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment.  Just to be clear, Sean is the creator of Survey.io, not me. </p>
<p>With regard to your comment about &#8220;it’s really scientific method, isn’t it?&#8221; &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  In fact, Brant and I note in the book:</p>
<p>&#8220;At an abstract level, Customer Development&#8230;applies an engineering,<br />
or scientific method, to what is really not a<br />
scientific endeavor (building a business).<br />
Your process will resemble the scientific<br />
method by following these steps:</p>
<p>• Observing and describing a phenomenon<br />
• Formulating a causal hypothesis to explain<br />
the phenomenon<br />
• Using a hypothesis to predict the results of<br />
new observations<br />
• Measuring prediction performance based on<br />
experimental tests&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>In the book, we don&#8217;t spend a lot of time on freemium, as the book is an outline and primer for getting to Product-Market Fit, which is another way of saying Customer Development is a malleable,<br />
customizable, and bespoke methodology for<br />
dealing with the chaos of the real-world.</p>
<p>Back to freemium, I am not sure that going with a freemium model is as simple as making a decision to make a grab for marketshare &#8211; I think it is considerably more complicated than that, and highly dependent on what sort of market type you are addressing (new, existing, re-segmented etc).  </p>
<p>For further insight on freemium, I would suggest reading any of Sean&#8217;s posts on the matter as well as Ash Maurya&#8217;s and Lincoln Murphy&#8217;s.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lincolnmurphy.com/2010/01/new-paper-reality-of-freemium-in-saas.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lincolnmurphy.com/2010/01/new-paper-reality-of-freemium-in-saas.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.ashmaurya.com/2010/07/3-rules-to-actionable-metrics/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ashmaurya.com/2010/07/3-rules-to-actionable-metrics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11935</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11935</guid>
		<description>Hi Lisa, your question is directed at Patrick, but I&#039;ll share my experience.  With a freemium business, you want to survey both groups separately.  Having run the survey multiple times with freemium businesses, it&#039;s surprising that this is no clear pattern. Sometimes the free product has a much higher percentage of users that would be very disappointed without it, and sometimes the paid product does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lisa, your question is directed at Patrick, but I&#8217;ll share my experience.  With a freemium business, you want to survey both groups separately.  Having run the survey multiple times with freemium businesses, it&#8217;s surprising that this is no clear pattern. Sometimes the free product has a much higher percentage of users that would be very disappointed without it, and sometimes the paid product does.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Thorell</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11934</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Thorell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11934</guid>
		<description>Very thought-provoking read. Based on my own experience in ground-zero startups, much of this resonates. Totally appreciate your point on &quot;Pivot not jump&quot; -- and peeling that away, it&#039;s really scientific method, isn&#039;t it? Question: Looking at Surveyio, when you determined from 100 startups that 40% (suspect-MVP users would be disappointed if couldnt use product anymore) was a good threshold for identifying MVP, was that always determined with freemium users or a mix (some freemium, some paying)?  MVP for freemium (allowing one to establish volume marketshare - critical these days) is different than for paying. Does your book address this gap?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thought-provoking read. Based on my own experience in ground-zero startups, much of this resonates. Totally appreciate your point on &#8220;Pivot not jump&#8221; &#8212; and peeling that away, it&#8217;s really scientific method, isn&#8217;t it? Question: Looking at Surveyio, when you determined from 100 startups that 40% (suspect-MVP users would be disappointed if couldnt use product anymore) was a good threshold for identifying MVP, was that always determined with freemium users or a mix (some freemium, some paying)?  MVP for freemium (allowing one to establish volume marketshare &#8211; critical these days) is different than for paying. Does your book address this gap?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vlaskovits</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11932</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vlaskovits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11932</guid>
		<description>@Giff

&quot;Of course, the flow from MVP to proven must-have signal won’t always be smooth but that is the whole point of constant iteration and validation.&quot;

Absolutely, couldn&#039;t agree more.  The flow from MVP to must-have signal (if you even get one!) is most assuredly very turbulent, at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Giff</p>
<p>&#8220;Of course, the flow from MVP to proven must-have signal won’t always be smooth but that is the whole point of constant iteration and validation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely, couldn&#8217;t agree more.  The flow from MVP to must-have signal (if you even get one!) is most assuredly very turbulent, at best.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11928</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11928</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sean, I agree that there is some risk in asking this question (just as there is risk with any test that may temporarily hurt results).  It is critical to build a great relationship with the early base of users, but their most important value is helping you figure out a repeatable formula for acquiring, gratifying and monetizing the next million+ customers (or possibly 1000+ if you are targeting enterprises). 

Anyone who shares Sean Murphy&#039;s concerns about the key Survey.io question can add something in parenthesis after the question such as the following (This question is intended to help us understand whose needs we are currently meeting and why.  We are committed to continuously improving [insert product name] to better meet your needs).  This should eliminate any customer misperceptions that the question is a veiled thread to discontinue the product.  I haven&#039;t added this qualifier since I&#039;ve only seen 2 or 3 customers express concern out of the 20,000+ responses to the survey that I&#039;ve reviewed.  And I always take it as a very positive sign when customers express these concerns.  Finally, I wouldn&#039;t recommend running the survey until you&#039;ve had some strong direct customer feedback in interviews.

Overall, I have found the survey very useful in determining when a startup is ready to start transitioning to growth (I shared it with the community because I figured other people might also find it useful).  Trying to grow too early can easily kill a startup, and waiting too long can result in a missed window of opportunity.  This survey provides a concrete milestone for making the shift at the right time.  I agree that asking for money can also be a helpful proxy, but as many infomercials demonstrate, people can easily pay for something that offers very little gratification once they actually use it.  I&#039;ve seen several startups that were temporarily able to drive growth and sell product only to have growth crater within a few months.  In each case they were well below the recommended 40% benchmark of people that would be very disappointed if they could no longer use the product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sean, I agree that there is some risk in asking this question (just as there is risk with any test that may temporarily hurt results).  It is critical to build a great relationship with the early base of users, but their most important value is helping you figure out a repeatable formula for acquiring, gratifying and monetizing the next million+ customers (or possibly 1000+ if you are targeting enterprises). </p>
<p>Anyone who shares Sean Murphy&#8217;s concerns about the key Survey.io question can add something in parenthesis after the question such as the following (This question is intended to help us understand whose needs we are currently meeting and why.  We are committed to continuously improving [insert product name] to better meet your needs).  This should eliminate any customer misperceptions that the question is a veiled thread to discontinue the product.  I haven&#8217;t added this qualifier since I&#8217;ve only seen 2 or 3 customers express concern out of the 20,000+ responses to the survey that I&#8217;ve reviewed.  And I always take it as a very positive sign when customers express these concerns.  Finally, I wouldn&#8217;t recommend running the survey until you&#8217;ve had some strong direct customer feedback in interviews.</p>
<p>Overall, I have found the survey very useful in determining when a startup is ready to start transitioning to growth (I shared it with the community because I figured other people might also find it useful).  Trying to grow too early can easily kill a startup, and waiting too long can result in a missed window of opportunity.  This survey provides a concrete milestone for making the shift at the right time.  I agree that asking for money can also be a helpful proxy, but as many infomercials demonstrate, people can easily pay for something that offers very little gratification once they actually use it.  I&#8217;ve seen several startups that were temporarily able to drive growth and sell product only to have growth crater within a few months.  In each case they were well below the recommended 40% benchmark of people that would be very disappointed if they could no longer use the product.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Murphy</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11868</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11868</guid>
		<description>One of the most significant discoveries in medicine in the last decade has been that X-Rays are not a harmless diagnostic, and in fact incur a small increase in the risk of cancer. This does not mean that you should not get X-Rays, but you have to balance the risk versus the benefit. 

I worry that the diagnostic Sean Ellis proposes contains a veiled threat to discontinue the product and may prove especially toxic to early stage firms in the B2B space. 

I would never suggest to a business prospect that my product might no longer be available, which is exactly what this survey does. Especially in a situation where you alternate is to ask for payment, which would seem to be an even more convincing argument for product-market fit, I don&#039;t see any benefit to the survey.io approach.

A business customer is already worried about a startup going out of business, you should take great care not to to anything to magnify their concerns. 

I cannot speak to the survey.io accuracy in a consumer or media (advertising driven) market, but I would be extremely cautious about doing anything that would suggest less than 100% commitment to your product and your customer&#039;s success in using it in a B2B market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most significant discoveries in medicine in the last decade has been that X-Rays are not a harmless diagnostic, and in fact incur a small increase in the risk of cancer. This does not mean that you should not get X-Rays, but you have to balance the risk versus the benefit. </p>
<p>I worry that the diagnostic Sean Ellis proposes contains a veiled threat to discontinue the product and may prove especially toxic to early stage firms in the B2B space. </p>
<p>I would never suggest to a business prospect that my product might no longer be available, which is exactly what this survey does. Especially in a situation where you alternate is to ask for payment, which would seem to be an even more convincing argument for product-market fit, I don&#8217;t see any benefit to the survey.io approach.</p>
<p>A business customer is already worried about a startup going out of business, you should take great care not to to anything to magnify their concerns. </p>
<p>I cannot speak to the survey.io accuracy in a consumer or media (advertising driven) market, but I would be extremely cautious about doing anything that would suggest less than 100% commitment to your product and your customer&#8217;s success in using it in a B2B market.</p>
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		<title>By: Giff</title>
		<link>http://startup-marketing.com/getting-to-product-market-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-11825</link>
		<dc:creator>Giff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://startup-marketing.com/?p=839#comment-11825</guid>
		<description>Nice to see you posting here Patrick. It&#039;s a good, straightforward breakdown of the basic flow without getting lost in detail and exception cases. Of course, the flow from MVP to proven must-have signal won&#039;t always be smooth but that is the whole point of constant iteration and validation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see you posting here Patrick. It&#8217;s a good, straightforward breakdown of the basic flow without getting lost in detail and exception cases. Of course, the flow from MVP to proven must-have signal won&#8217;t always be smooth but that is the whole point of constant iteration and validation.</p>
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